“A kid I was teaching the other day told me that our gun laws were rubbish and he (aged 15) should be allowed a gun.

He is quite an aggressive person and is always talking about meat cleavers etc. His father is a butcher.”

“Nothing pee's people off more than feeling that they've been lied to.

I've certainly been lied to a lot over the years about my supposed privileged life as an American--about educational opportunities, career opportunities, social justice, what my government is trying to do in the world--but these young kids coming of age these days--I can hardly imagine what a fancy lace bag of s***e they must feel they've been handed.

Some people think that those who carry out acts like these are completely on the moon, but the fact is that this sort of thing happens most when saner folk are under lots of stress, too. So, the loonies are in fact in touch with the normal world, and are simply coping with the stress in horrible ways.

I was born with the US briefly involved in Korea, then again for a few years in Vietnam. Young children born in America in the last thirty years have seen the US almost always at war, in many places. It must seem to them that America's prime directive is to act as the world's saviour and peacekeeper, with guns and missiles. It's all a matter of choosing a deserving target...

Why are Americans reluctant to march in the streets? As a friend's very sage dad once observed, "Watch what your government does overseas. Sooner or later, it will do it here too."

Meanwhile, the Black and Tans got Raoul Moat. There he sat, with a shotgun under his chin, a classic threat posture if I ever saw one, and the cops Tasered him twice with unlicensed weapons, amidst a right armada ready to take on a Nazi invasion. Pick me up if I'm wrong, but I think that they'll return in future. Brave New World and Clockwork Orange weren't just products of unhinged minds, methinks.

2018: Britain, oh heck... Brits do get hold of firearms if they really want to. And, as here in America, if there is a perceived profitable market for firearms, they magically appear. African twelve year olds go to war with 15 quid AK47's.”

“I reckon, although a nutter will always get hold of a gun if he's desperate, if the gun laws were much stricter there'd be a lot less incidents like this.

My heart goes out to all these poor parents. I am afraid that, if this happened to mine, I wouldn't want to go on.”

“The guns belonged to his mother so he didn't have to look far. She collected them.”

“The Americans are now where we once were; the major world power. With that goes a massive responsibility and much international hate and suspicion. You cannot be that powerful without 'treading on a few toes', whether it be militarily or commercially. This, coupled with a cultural need to succeed that does not recognise second best/failure at any level, only serves to create massive stress levels in those who do not meet expectations. When someone teetering on the edge eventually goes over it, having easy access to guns offers them a way to get even. Not the definitive answer; just my opinion.”

“I see your point clem, as I do ghostwriter's but my point is that, because so many guns are available and so easy to own or collect as mentioned above, the incidents happen so easily.

Couldn't someone who is desperate to have a gun collection (?) have them de-commissioned and couldn't an inspector go and check that the guns are indeed not able to shoot a bullet, perhaps yearly? Or just collect replicas? If they're on the wall, they don't need to shoot do they? Or am i missing something here?

I know that this won't stop the person so hell bent on running amok, so is the nature of the beast. But it would surely put a few obstacles in the way. Something just has to be done.”

“'We protect aspirin bottles in this country better than we protect guns from accidents by children'.

Believe it or not; Gloria Estefan. Never a truer word spoken.”

“Thankfully, the song 'Can't Stay Away From You' wasn't about Gloria and her favourite Colt 45.

Seriously, this 'shooting up a school' has happened too many times. They have to limit guns now surely?”

“The gun lobby claim that if civilians could carry hidden weapons then the teachers could have shot him. Yes, that makes sense because civilians are all crack shots.

Some of my students were claiming that they should be able to carry mace to protect themselves. Never occurred to them that the bad guys would also be able to carry it too.”

“I agree that it is a problem that can't be magically eradicated but by limiting (and I mean really limiting) them the numbers of these atrocities must surely dwindle Or so you'd think.

I appreciate it will still happen but perhaps not so often. That was my point. Lives can be saved.”

“Clem's right. America's 'winner' culture is a big source of stress, in several ways. And now, we're falling off the peg anyway, so these kids are seeing a world in which they will get the ill consequences of American behavior without the benefits.

As was the case in the Columbine High School massacre, schools adore their rugger ****** heroes, who often bully other students. When they're caught at it, the school mobilizes to get them off the hook, which of course involves not acknowledging what the victims have suffered. This Connecticut kid's mother pulled him out of school and tutored him at home. I won't be surprised if it comes out that it was because he was bullied for being a bit different. We can't talk to him or his mother anymore, so it's up to the honesty of his school system to report whether that was the case. Might not get the facts right away, or at all.

Raoul Moat had an illegal gun. So did that taxi driver over in Northumbria not long before the Moat incident. People like this dwell on homicidal and suicidal thoughts for years. If they want a gun, they'll get one. A gun ban would cut down on impulsive murders, but not massacres. What's needed is a cultural reform that reduces peoples' tendency to go down this road in the first place.”

“I agree with your points Mr. S. Perhaps we will never find a solution to these problems. But oh how I wish we could.”

“In France I visited a gun shop with Mr Foodlove, the proprietor told us he sold guns to a lot of British people, he then showed us a book with the names ( which he covered ) and the cities they were from, it was mainly Liverpool and Manchester. I would guess many of these people mailed them back to the U.K or risked customs on the ferries. I believe it is easy to get hold of a firearm if you know the right people.”

“i reckon you could buy one locally tomorrow. I don't know this for a fact before anyone calls the cops.”

“Obama has just stated on the BBC news "God has called them home" or some such superstitious rubbish. Pity "God" didn't save those children from the typical gun-nut in a gun-nut country.

Obama is a big improvement on geriatric buffoon Reagan or imbecile Bush but his good intentions will fail because of the influence of the NRA and gun lobby.
For the same reason no President will dare to support Palestinian rights because of the jewish lobby.
Any ban on the sale of assault rifles and automatic weapons now may send out a positive signal,but any attempt to confiscate those already held would either be futile or would take two generations at least.

In the land of the freak and the home of the brain dead these events will continue and remember,only the large scale shootings or those involving children are widely reported.”

“Got the paper this morning and couldn't read it. Apparently one child had eleven bullet wounds. I put the paper down and have felt sick all day.”

“My brother lives in the states and he came home when my dad passed away and his house got burgled and ransacked. They took everything he owned including the safe with my grandads war diary in. The police thought they had urinated everywhere including the new babies room and what they didn't manage to take they had stacked to come back for - they also had access the spare house keys.

My brother lives a quiet country town. In the same week a neighbour got robbed at shot and his wife raped. When my brother got back he changed the locks got a state of the art burglar alarm system and he now has a gun and if anyone was to enter his house he is within the law to gun them down and protect his home.

I personally feel uneasy around guns, what i find astonishing that the local priest carried a gun - this raises the question about faith in mankind. I am glad that I don't have to think about it or need to have an ak47 under my bed.

This crime is terrible. I worry that they are blaming his 'special needs' to find reason for a senseless attack. People with autism or asperges suffer enough prejudice, this will only add to the challenges and barriers they face in everyday life.”

“We are better without them. But, come the day that your home is taken over by these scum you might think otherwise. It is a dilemma bt I agree.”

“MimitheDJ - I suppose that sums why it's a good thing we don't have guns. It's not that we are more passive than those in the US. I know that if I had a gun in the house and I was burgled I would be tempted to use it. As it is I cannot take a life so easily so have to think more carefully about security and crime prevention.

Plus, there's always the scenario where the burglar gets the gun off you and you're in more trouble than before.”

“We already have gun crime in the UK. Maybe not on the scale of the states but it still exists. Considering our rules and laws about owning and using guns we still have some tragic deaths and some mentally ill people causing havoc with them.
We shouldn`t ever forget Dunblane or Hungerford and more recently Cumbria.”

“jenoh, the opposite argument could be that there may be less burglaries if it was thought that some home-owners might have a firearm in the house. I know it's a long shot (pardon the pun).
And technically you could keep an illegal gun or weapon in the house, as could we all, just that we choose not to.

Floss, I agree entirely, hence my last six words above.”

“MimiTheDJ - I'm going to bet that there are lots if burglaries in the US even with the burglars full knowledge that the homeowner might be armed.

I'm going to ask the Internet, hang on.”

“Hold the front page! After some very basic googling and maths it turns out the DJ may have a valid point! (Yeah I know).

In 2011 the burglary rate per capita in America was 707 per 100,000 whereas in the UK it was 1,241 per 100,000.

I haven't looked at any that resulted in fatality and I maintain that I would rather be burgled than shot, but blimey!

I look forward to someone with better maths blasting my results out of the water.”

“Also, please add the word "approximately" at the relevant points. I did some rounding off.”

“jenoh

But how many people in the USA are robbed outside the home at gunpoint?

Everyone has weapons at their disposal inside their homes (knives for example) and some people also own guns legally. The difference between the USA and UK is in the USA the authorities have a very different attitude to homeowners who try and protect their property from burglars.”

“Very gracious jenoh, thank you for that.

ghostwriter69 you are of course correct. I too don't like the idea of having a weapon thrust into my face either(!) but it is worth remembering the lines of the wonderful song by 'Goldie Looking Chain' - 'Gun's Don't Kill People, Rappers Do'. I suspect that most people that own a gun would prefer NOT to use it. But I enjoyed both your postings, as always. xx”

“ghostwriter69 - I have no idea. I was looking for burglary stats.

They clearly have more gun crime and deaths as a result of widespread gun ownership but I wanted to check if what the DJ said could possibly be true or if their burglary stats were the same (or as I hoped) higher.

Also, I would be more likely to shoot someone with a gun I had to hand than get close and stab someone with a knife I had to fetch from the kitchen drawer.

Come on, you're good at percentages. Make my results wrong, please!!”

“Hey! Now now. Why does the DJ always have to be wrong ;)). I was only going on my thoughts, I didn't go near the stats. I just think that, if a person grows up with access to a firearm they become less illegal and out of reach. That said, please don't put my down as pro-gun. I never carry one.”

“Erm, no. I meant that I hoped that our crime rate was less than America's in this case. Not really bothered about whether it proves you right or wrong.

You may have misunderstood.”

“I know you were buddy, things sometimes come out a bit different on the Forum, not a prob. You're an asset.”

“jenoh

I don't think that's the point though. The Yanks are quite happy to see burglars shot by homeowners, in the UK, even if we could have guns, we would be sent to prison if we shot an intruder let alone killed them.

They have something called the Castle Doctrine, we don't.

In the USA homicide per 100,000 is 2.97 and in England and Wales 0.07 which is over 42 times higher in the USA.”

“ghostwriter69 - I get that but the point I'm making is that if I don't have a gun I can't shoot someone.”

“jenoh

Yes and I get your point too.”

“If we'd been able to own guns (as the Americans have) and then we had to hand them in we'd perhaps feel vulnerable.

I think the USA may well have a problem on their hands if they do call them all in. Not condoning guns, just looking at it from the reverse scenario.”

“Its a jolly good job that we dont reside in Kingston-upon-Hull ...America ... its a bit like the wild west on here...the only thing left would be tumbleweed blowing though the threads”